Proud father of a US Marine
Those bushings in the axle are harder to change than end links, so develop a strategy. The auto parts chain stores like Autozone have loaner tools. It'd possible their "balljoint press" might have adapters that'd let you remove and install those odd bushings.
The OEM rear bar is designed well but it's way too small. If all you can swing right now is bushings, go ahead, but I think I'd replace rear first if I was only buying one.
You should see a difference with hard bushings, but it won't be the Day and Night difference you get with Hellwig bars.
If God's Your Co-Pilot Move Over, jd
2003 Jayco Escapade 31A on 2002 Ford E450 V10 4R100 218" WB
Stacey Frank
2016 Tiffin Allegro Bus 40AP
2019 Tesla Model X
2015 Cadillac SRX we Tow
1991 Avanti Convertible
PartyOf5 appreciating our Creator thru the creation. 5 yrs, 50k
May you find Peace in all you endeavor.
PartyOf Five wrote:
Can you guys say a few words on what changes I'd notice on the road, and set an expectation on what I'd pay to upgrade to the Helwig (parts & labor cost). 31' e450 v10, 2001. Thanks!
On the road, it will sway less, wander less, and corner with much more confidence. On the Campsite it will rock far less when occupants move around. You can be 200-pounds and not notice the entry step push down when you climb in!
You can price the parts on Amazon, SDTruckSprings, and others. I think the two bars will add to less than $500. 7008 for Front, 7180 for Rear.
Somebody who has done the job before, has a lift or pit to work with, could probably mount both bars in 1.5-2.0 hours total. If you can't find the installation instructions on line, call Hellwig. Their website is really hashed up. Then show the instructions to your mechanic.
Or recruit helper(s) and do it! At age late 60's I did my own. Now early 70's I could do it again.
Same for 7180 Rear
2005 Gulf Stream Conquest 31ft
BigFoot Levelers,TST in tire TPMS,Bilstein Shocks,Trans temp guage,Lowrace iWAY
I was extremely pleased with the end result. When I got mine sdtrucksprings.com was the best buy.
The local tire place did my front shocks with their house brand. Price was good and the install was like $15 each so it was worth it. I understand that the E-450 shocks are rather hard to do on one side but can't confirm that.
2003 Ford 450 Jayco Greyhawk 25D
1986 Jeep Renegade
2011 Jeep Unlimited Rubicon JK
sullivanclan wrote:
What would the hellwig rear sway bar cost?
In my link above, rear is $263, free shipping, maybe sales tax. Amazon has them, price seemed about the same, and then there's SDTruckSprings.com
Price is going to bounce around a little since somebody's usually running some form of promotion.
I ordered mine from SD, forget if it was free shipping but there was a discount. They actually shipped right from Hellwig.
Rear bar's heavier than the front, but the install is easier and faster. On the front, for 2007 and earlier, you "build" the end link brackets that clamp to the axles. Just plates and U-Bolts, but it takes a little effort to position and tighten them. The rear uses existing attachment points. So does the front for 2008 and newer.
2018 Grand Design Solitude 379FLS
chag67 wrote:
I noticed a lot of sway this past weekend driving my 2007 E450. Does the hellwig replace what is on the rig currently or is it in addition too? Please excuse my ignorance on the subject since I am not mechanically inclined at all.
The factory bars are removed and the new heavier built, thicker bars are installed.
stripit wrote:
The factory bars are removed and the new heavier built, thicker bars are installed.
How difficult/easy is the install? Does anyone have a link for step by step instructions or a video?
OEM front bar is 1" diameter and Hellwig is 1-3/8"
OEM rear is 1-1/8" and Hellwig 1-1/2"
Roadmaster is same dimensions, same steel, just pricier.
BTW: I agree with everything j-d is sharing.
2007 Phoenix Cruiser model 2350, with 2006 Jeep Liberty in-tow
chag67 wrote:
How difficult/easy is the install? Does anyone have a link for step by step instructions or a video?
Er, Ah, Yes... Look up to Page One in this Thread. I posted links to the Part Numbers, Illustrations, and Prices of Front and Rear Hellwig Bars for E450 up through 2007.
Within each of those links, when you open the page for each bar, then you can click on the Installation Instructions and see those too.
Plus, traveling home, my hands were cramped and sore from having to grip the steering wheel so tight. It was a very windy drive home and I was having to fight the whole time trying to stay in my lane.
I don't mind paying for the Hellwig sway bars but I don't want to pay for installation if I don't have to. I don't have a vast assortment of tools. Just your normal tool kit you get from any home improvement store. Something similar to this - Average tool kit from Home Depot
chag67 wrote:
I'm positive I need them. I felt the rig move at every movement of my son in the overhead bunk. I also felt the rig move at every wind gust while parked.
Plus, traveling home, my hands were cramped and sore from having to grip the steering wheel so tight.
I don't mind paying for the Hellwig sway bars but I don't want to pay for installation if I don't have to.
Upgraded sway bars help both on the road, and also on the campsite. You'll still feel people moving around in the parked coach, but no where near as much. After all, the coach is still sitting on springs and tires.
When a Ford Class C sways, that's also an un-commanded steering input, so that's part of why upgrading is so good. Don't rule out needing a front end alignment, one that increases the spec called Caster, but there's a lot that can be done short of that, to improve the drive. Cheapest, around $10, is load the coach as for a trip, people and all, and weigh it on a CAT Scale, then adjust tire pressure to the actual axle weight. Ford chassis is VERY sensitive to front tire pressure.
I helped an RV.net member install a Hellwig rear bar on a Chevy chassis, and the upgrade satisfied him with improved driving and solved his wife's annoyance about the coach bouncing when he walked around in the parked coach.
I think about all you'd need is a 1/2" drive ratchet, a few sockets, and perhaps additionally a 3/4" wrench. An 8" adjustable wrench would probably do.
Part of the reason for 1/2" drive is the amount of torque specified for some of the fasteners.
The Hellwig parts themselves are SAE wrench/socket sizes. The fasteners you have to take out and re-install to hold the sway bar brackets to the front frame and rear axle are Metric. Harbor Freight tools are just fine for a project like sway bars, and for the home tinkerer. Their basic 1/2" socket set is about $25. Stores like Lowe's and Home Depot have individual sockets you can add for a couple Metric fasteners. The auto parts chain stores, loan tools. They're usually specialized tools, but they might also loan socket sets. Basically you buy the tool. Then use it and return it for a refund.
Would you like me to go out to our E450 and get you the wrench sizes?
I think Ron.Dittmer, posted above, can link you to an RV.net thread, where he and his brother added a rear sway bar to an E350. That would be actually a little more difficult than swapping an OEM E450 bar for a Hellwig.
Wish you were closer, I'd offer to help. I've been to Maxwell, but no business out that way for the foreseeable future.
* This post was last edited 05/02/17 01:04pm by j-d *
Front and Rear Sway Bar Center Bushing Brackets: Metric 15MM
All parts furnished by Hellwig: SAE 3/4"
There isn't an SAE size that'll "work as 15MM" so you need that specific socket. Standard depth is fine.
You can get away with 19MM for the 3/4" but the socket should be Deep.
I always get Six Point Sockets.
So you'd need a Ratchet, two Sockets, and a Wrench.
Wrench can be an Open End, Combination (box/socket end plus an open end) or an Adjustable. 8" would be nice, but a 6" will open to 3/4".
Again, suggest 1/2" drive for the sockets. I don't like the fastener diameter much bigger than the square drive size of the socket set. The 3/4" tools will be working 1/2" fasteners, and the 15MM is driving screws that are about 7/16".
Footnote: 2008 and newer use two different sizes on the front bar center brackets, the 15MM and something larger. Common next larger'd be 17MM but I don't have a vehicle to check that on.
EDIT: Looked at the OEM rear sway bar end links I removed to install the Hellwig bar. The 3/4" or 19MM socket will remove the frame end. The bar end is 14MM but your 15MM socket'll catch it if you get a six point. Or if your open end wrench is an adjustable.
* This post was edited 05/03/17 07:46pm by j-d *
chag67 wrote:
stripit wrote:
The factory bars are removed and the new heavier built, thicker bars are installed.
How difficult/easy is the install? Does anyone have a link for step by step instructions or a video?
j-d wrote:
Might rain, so I got the cardboard out, slid under with a handful of sockets, and here are the E450 sizes, through Chassis Year 2007:
Front and Rear Sway Bar Center Bushing Brackets: Metric 15MM
All parts furnished by Hellwig: SAE 3/4"
There isn't an SAE size that'll "work as 15MM" so you need that specific socket. Standard depth is fine.
You can get away with 19MM for the 3/4" but the socket should be Deep.
I always get Six Point Sockets.
So you'd need a Ratchet, two Sockets, and a Wrench.
Wrench can be an Open End, Combination (box/socket end plus an open end) or an Adjustable. 8" would be nice, but a 6" will open to 3/4".
Again, suggest 1/2" drive for the sockets. I don't like the fastener diameter much bigger than the square drive size of the socket set. The 3/4" tools will be working 1/2" fasteners, and the 15MM is driving screws that are about 7/16".
Footnote: 2008 and newer use two different sizes on the front bar center brackets, the 15MM and something larger. Common next larger'd be 17MM but I don't have a vehicle to check that on.
EDIT: Looked at the OEM rear sway bar end links I removed to install the Hellwig bar. The 3/4" or 19MM socket will remove the frame end. The bar end is 14MM but your 15MM socket'll catch it if you get a six point. Or if your open end wrench is an adjustable.
Thank you for your over and above help. I have tinkered with my motorcycle (oil change, rerouted electric lines so they weren't under the gas tank, changed spark plugs which required some engine mount stabilization, etc). I have a full set of metric and English sockets along with a torque wrench and open ended wrench. My sockets are 6 points so they should grip just fine.
It sounds like a "simple" remove the old sway bar and install the new one in it's place. I will tackle the issue after our Labor Day weekend trip but before our trip to Florida in July. Got to come up with the funding first. Spending way too much right now on the rig.
Every motor home on a Ford chassis, regardless of model year, but especially prior to 2008, should have heavy duty sway (stabilizer) bars, given the chassis is always being driven at max-load conditions.
Our little 24' rig in my signature drove like a drunken sailor when brand new. After our first trip, I had heavy duty front & rear stabilizer bars, heavy duty shocks, rear trac bar, and Safe-T-Plus steering stabilizer installed. It has been a joy to drive the rig ever since.....10 years so far of joy-riding instead of hell-riding.
ron.dittmer wrote:
It's too bad Ford doesn't supply RV-outfitted chassis to RV manufactures with all the heavy-duty stuff to begin with. That would make them right from the start.
Every motor home on a Ford chassis, regardless of model year, but especially prior to 2008, should have heavy duty sway (stabilizer) bars, given the chassis is always being driven at max-load conditions.
Our little 24' rig in my signature drove like a drunken sailor when brand new. After our first trip, I had heavy duty front & rear stabilizer bars, heavy duty shocks, rear trac bar, and Safe-T-Plus steering stabilizer installed. It has been a joy to drive the rig ever since.....10 years so far of joy-riding instead of hell-riding.
What does the rear trac bar do differently than rear stabilizer bar?
* This post was edited 05/04/17 10:17am by chag67 *
chag67 wrote:
ron.dittmer wrote:
It's too bad Ford doesn't supply RV-outfitted chassis to RV manufactures with all the heavy-duty stuff to begin with. That would make them right from the start.
Every motor home on a Ford chassis, regardless of model year, but especially prior to 2008, should have heavy duty sway (stabilizer) bars, given the chassis is always being driven at max-load conditions.
Our little 24' rig in my signature drove like a drunken sailor when brand new. After our first trip, I had heavy duty front & rear stabilizer bars, heavy duty shocks, rear trac bar, and Safe-T-Plus steering stabilizer installed. It has been a joy to drive the rig ever since.....10 years so far of joy-riding instead of hell-riding.
What does the rear trac bar do differently than rear stabilizer bar?
The rear trac bar reduces the horizontal side-to-side rear tail wagging. A rear trac bar is especially beneficial when towing a trailer or boat where there is significant tongue weight for they like to encourage more of that horizontal tail-wagging motion. Whether towing or not, a motor home with a long rear overhang will benefit from a rear trac bar, much more than a rig with a short rear overhang because a long overhang can act much in the same manner as if towing a large trailer.
Our rig has a long rear overhang in proportion to the wheel base, hence it was recommended we get a rear trac bar.
Does this make sense?
ron.dittmer wrote:
A heavy duty rear stabilizer bar reduces the "lean" or "rocking" side to side, much like a boat rocks or leans side-to-side when in water.
The rear trac bar reduces the horizontal side-to-side rear tail wagging. A rear trac bar is especially beneficial when towing a trailer or boat where there is significant tongue weight for they like to encourage more of that horizontal tail-wagging motion. Whether towing or not, a motor home with a long rear overhang will benefit from a rear trac bar, much more than a rig with a short rear overhang because a long overhang can act much in the same manner as if towing a large trailer.
Our rig has a long rear overhang in proportion to the wheel base, hence it was recommended we get a rear trac bar.
Does this make sense?
That makes perfect sense and sounds like I will definitely need one too. I have a long over hang on the rear plus I will be pulling an enclosed trailer at times.
Is rear trac bar as easy an installation as the Hellwig sway bars?
I also saw on Blue Ox website that the rear trac bar will not work with an air bag system. I have an air bag system on my rig.
* This post was edited 05/04/17 02:15pm by chag67 *
chag67 wrote:
ron.dittmer wrote:
A heavy duty rear stabilizer bar reduces the "lean" or "rocking" side to side, much like a boat rocks or leans side-to-side when in water.
The rear trac bar reduces the horizontal side-to-side rear tail wagging. A rear trac bar is especially beneficial when towing a trailer or boat where there is significant tongue weight for they like to encourage more of that horizontal tail-wagging motion. Whether towing or not, a motor home with a long rear overhang will benefit from a rear trac bar, much more than a rig with a short rear overhang because a long overhang can act much in the same manner as if towing a large trailer.
Our rig has a long rear overhang in proportion to the wheel base, hence it was recommended we get a rear trac bar.
Does this make sense?
That makes perfect sense and sounds like I will definitely need one too. I have a long over hang on the rear plus I will be pulling an enclosed trailer at times.
Is rear trac bar as easy an installation as the Hellwig sway bars?
I also saw on Blue Ox website that the rear trac bar will not work with an air bag system. I have an air bag system on my rig.
1998 Class C Lazy Daze 26 1/2 island bed
banks intake/exhaust
wifi/4g/siriusXM/DTV/DirecTV/CB
2xGeorbital electric bike conversions
I believe a Lazy Daze will exhibit better handling than most Class C's of the same size, let alone bigger ones. They're lighter and lower than most designs.
Most likely, the Track Bar mounting that clamps onto the driver side frame rail, may compete for physical space with the driver side of an air bag kit.
I also added a BlueOx Tiger Trak Bar. It's not as easy as sway bars, and the attaching clamp is a little hard to visualize. I called BlueOx support, and shortly received a call from their handling specialist, Mr. Ralph Andrews. This was several years ago, I don't know if Ralph is still there. He was very helpful with my questions and clearly had depth beyond somebody reading a troubleshooting flow chart. He said he'd actually designed most of the rear track bars in the market. Also confirmed most of them are the same for a given application, just different branding, numbering, and paint color. Said they were all made by one plant in Pacific NW.
Anyhow, if anybody can help with an install question, I'd vote for Ralph. Failing that, John Henderson at Hendersons Line Up in Grants Pass OR, or Eric Davis at Eric's RV in Sequim WA.
Sway bars made the big difference, but track bar added more improvement.
For Brother Ron Dittmer: Having a sway bar and a track bar didn't seem to create a conflict. Problem I had was getting the track bar to clear something, and I forget if it was the differential cover, or the front of the fuel tank. Ralph assured be it'd fit if I forced the clamp forward, along the frame rail, as far as it would go. That meant hard against a crossmember.
We always have to be careful not to pinch something like fuel lines, wiring harnesses, brake lines/cables, etc. There's more risk of doing that with the track bar clamp than the sway bar link mountings. Track bar has bigger fasteners and requires more torque than the sway bars.
1400 miles later, and driving through mountains and that storm front that crossed the east coast on the 1st, I gotta tell ya, that C handled fine ! I've never driven a C class prior, and maybe I was just expecting the worst, but it was all smooth sailing for us.
The only time ( twice) while on the interstate that I felt "pushed / blown" was when we were passed by a Prevost bus. That bus actually passed us twice that day and both times it was really moving. Maybe because of the flat front of the bus ?
Maybe because our C is new and tight it handled well ?
I did all the reading of those changing out shocks, steering stabilizers, track bars, sway bars, sumo springs, etc, but at this time I have no plans to change anything out! I hope I'm not jinxing myself, and I hope things don't " loosen" up.....LOL !
2018 Forester 3011DS
2010 Flagstaff 26RLS (Sold)
2012 Ford F-150 Screw Ecoboost H/D 3.73
1930 CCC
Going where the weather suits my clothes !
A little background; I am a "Car Guy". I have raced cars for 30 years, along with building and Fabrication, even to the extent of building several very high end drag cars (twin turbo, custom roll cages, chassis set up etc. etc.) for customers. Worked at a large Ford dealer for almost 20 years, started in the body shop, became Service Manager, then onto Operations Manager before leaving for my current profession. So, basically I have always done my own work and sometimes I may make things sound easier to do than maybe they are.
With that out of the way, I have a 2006 Winnebago Class C, 40,000 miles. I didn't really think it drove too bad at all, but I have also towed 5th wheel race trailers with a Ford Dually for years. However, I wanted to make the coach handle a little better so maybe my wife can feel comfortable to drive once in a while. Also, I like to tinker if you hadn't figured that yet. Ordered the Hellwig bars through Summit Racing Equipment, I paid $241 for the front bar (7008), and $243 for the rear (7180) shipped, I get "pro racer" pricing from Summit so expect a little higher price without discount. The front bar lower bracket needed a small modification to fit around the drivers side radius arm...a small notch cut out, no biggie. Ironically Summit's online catalog does not show the 7008 fitting the E450, only the E350, but Hellwigs catalog says it fits, so I assume this is why. The rear bar went on without any drama. The size difference in the bars is almost comical, new bars are very large in comparison.
In conclusion, the difference in highway handling is HUGE. They are very easy to install, and well worth the $500. I had also installed Koni FSD shocks last season so I'm sure that helps with mine too. I am now confident the wife can drive it with ease. Good Luck !
Since this member's a racer... There's talk, and truth in it, about how too much front/rear "roll stiffness" can contribute to under/over-steer. I have no doubt it's true in the racing world. Just not applicable in the RV world. Stiffening the front and rear on an RV, particularly an E-Series with Twin-I-Beam "Swing" axles, just doesn't have a downside. Might "on paper" but not In Use. The RV operating envelope is nothing like racers, even ordinary daily drivers. When the E-Series sways, it steers. E-350 and 450 should be the same in the front axle/suspension. That, or I missed some interference that's actually there...
Yo! SteelJag! Oftentimes, we hear from an owner whose E-Series based Class C drives just fine. I think some of that sentiment may be based on conditions and expectations, but I also think part of it is luck-of-the-draw.
I can offer several possibilities why a given coach would handle better than another:
New parts or no worn parts of course
Wheelbase and Floor Plan allow for good weight distribution
Proper loading for good weight distribution
Tire Pressures set according to Actual Scale Weights for Front and Rear Axles
Front End Alignment intentionally or otherwise set to reflect motor home load and usage. Especially CASTER, should be 5* or more. Range is 3-7* and the mid-range of 3* makes steering very vague.
I got my parts from Quigley in Pennsylvania, and the "kit" I bought was axles, radius arms and all. Even came with front shocks and a couple tie rod ends. I had to buy new Radius Arm Bolts and Nuts, Brake Hoses, and the upper Nut/Washer/Bushing combo for the Shocks. A No-Drill (or Grind, or Cut or File) installation. Re-used the Master Cylinder.
This swap is less expensive than a full front brake job (calipers, pads, rotors, bearings) or a suspension re-build (ball joints, bushings), and the Radius Arms are an updated design.
Quigley will also sell Brakes Only. That'd be Brackets, Rotors, Calipers with Pads, Splash Pans, and ABS Sensors. I re-used my Sensors because the connectors on our 2002 E-450 were different than the new (2012) ones. Sensor end was the same. You'd be on your own for the Hoses. Got my Dorman hoses on Amazon. All the other stuff mentioned above, I got from Ford.
* This post was edited 05/12/17 12:41pm by j-d *
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04 SunSeeker 2890
A huge difference. Not just the thickness of the bar, but also the unforgiving polymer bushings compared to the softer rubber bushings that compress with every lean.
Replacing both the front and rear stabilizer bars on any year Ford E350/E450 is the single biggest bang for the buck you can make to improve the handling of your motor home.
Many people don't realize this, but the E350 up to and including year 2007, has no rear stabilizer bar at all, unless added by the RV manufacture or previous owner. Ford never installed one in back.
I got so very tired of recommending the stabilizer bar upgrade. I seemed to irritate long-standing forum members with my consistent recommendation. Thanks j-d for carrying the ball in recent years.
Ron Dittmer
![[image]](https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7370/13095925773_3fb81c5dc4.jpg)
The 1992-2007 Hellwig kit will work on 2008-up but the 2008-up Hellwig kit needs those end link attach points and won't find them on a 1992-2007 axle. Removing the OEM front bar only requires unbolting the center (where the bushings and brackets are in the photo earlier in this thread) and pulling the bar out of its axle bushings. Bushings can stay. Then you build the end link mounts shown in my pic above, from the Hellwig kit.Install Front first. Unfold/flatten the box to make a surface to slide around on to ease getting to the rear. Close the rear box up and put the new bar on top of it to help slide it under. Also gets you that much closer to the installation height. All you have to do is remove the old bar then catch one of the axle mounts of the new one. From there it's easy to lift the second axle mount in place and move on tho the frame attachments forward of the axle. Cardboard is your Friend!
2017 Thor 22E class C, Ford E450, 25'
2007 Aliner high wall expedition
1997 28' Sportsman TT
1994 Flagstaff PU
Many camping boats before...
I did a quick search here and could not come up with anything. I also searched online and did not find any hellwig product for a chevy 4500 after the 2009 model year, unless my search-foo failed.
Do the chevy 4500 chassis come with better swaybars from the factory?
We may be getting a class C on a chevy 4500 chassis that is a 2012 or 2013 model year.
Thanks
* This post was edited 06/25/17 02:46pm by Newbiecampers *
Newbiecampers wrote:
Does anybody know if a Chevy 4500 chassis would benefit from a hellwig-type (or any other company) sway bar upgrade?
Let me tell you what I don't know, and what I DO know.
I don't know if a 4500 comes with sway bars, and
If 4500 DOES come with sway bars, I don't know if they're big enough th help with the handling of a Class C.
I DO know that Fords DO come with Front and sometimes Rear sway bars and those OEM bars are inadequate.
I also DO know that a 1-1/2 inch Hellwig rear sway bar makes a big improvement in a 3500 that didn't start out with one. I know this because I helped install it, then rode in it, then got the most important endorsement of all: Our OP's DW approved! A lot of what they were looking for was less rocking when parked on a campsite. It provided that, as well as improved driving.
We like Hellwig bars around here because thy have the same specs as Roadmaster at a much lower price. You can buy Front and Rear in Hellwig for not much more than the price of a Roadmaster for just one end. You can certainly install Hellwig on both ends for less than having a shop furnish and install one Roadmaster bar.
blownstang01 wrote:
...I just drove through a pretty major thunderstorm on our way to Nashville last week (no real easy place to pull over), between these sway bars and a proper alignment with 6+ degrees caster the difference in handling in the wind is truly huge. At least for me, worth every penny...
OP's like myself and Dittmer aren't compensated to promote suspension improvements. We testify to it because it WORKS!
Same with Harvard and increased CASTER. We're survivors of major RV diseases, and went to shout from the rooftops that You Can Do It Too!
I think people driving shorter rigs with large rear overhangs notice a bigger improvement with HD bars due to the poor ratio of "wheel base to length" but all rigs benefit.
Newbiecampers wrote:
Does anybody know if a Chevy 4500 chassis would benefit from a hellwig-type (or any other company) sway bar upgrade?
I did a quick search here and could not come up with anything. I also searched online and did not find any hellwig product for a chevy 4500 after the 2009 model year, unless my search-foo failed.
Do the chevy 4500 chassis come with better swaybars from the factory?
We may be getting a class C on a chevy 4500 chassis that is a 2012 or 2013 model year.
Thanks
Yes the newer 4500 chassis comes with a Rear Stabilizing Bar You should not have to replace it or up grade. The 4500 Chassis is built for the heavier loads.
My 2006 Tioga on a Chevy Chassis has the same rear suspension as the 4500 and it rides, and handles very well with no upgrades needed.
2006 TIOGA 26Q CHEVY 6.0 WORKHORSE VORTEC
Former El Monte RV Rental
Buying A Rental Class C
From what I can tell from the video, that rear sway bar looks like a worthwhile one. My guess is at least 1-1/4 inch maybe bigger, a lot more than Ford installs. The Hellwig rear bars for Class C are 1-1/2, and the Chevy bar could be that or close.
* This post was edited 06/27/17 12:43pm by j-d *
j-d wrote:
From what I can tell from the video, that rear sway bar looks like a worthwhile one. My guess is at least 1-1/4 inch maybe bigger, a lot more than Ford installs. The Hellwig rear bars for Class C are 1-1/2, and the Chevy bar could be that or close.
Yes the 4500 rear bar is 1 1/2 inches, same as mine on a Workhorse Chevy Chassis Chassis. The Helwig after market ones are also 1 1/2 inches.
ron.dittmer wrote:
I think people driving shorter rigs with large rear overhangs notice a bigger improvement with HD bars due to the poor ratio of "wheel base to length" but all rigs benefit.
That raises an interesting question: What do you think is more important - a good "wheel base to length" ratio, or a good "weight on front axle to overall weight ratio" ... and why?
And also - which bad ratio of one or the other of the two above would benefit most from adequate front and rear sway bars ... and why?
Phil, 2005 E450 Itasca Spirit 24V
A wheelbase that's long enough to have a good WB-to-Length ratio, is also going to cause a good front axle loading.
This is my "wheelbase conspiracy theory:" In coaches bigger than about 24-feet, the manufacturer wants to hang a walkaround queen bedroom like the 31-footers have. They don't want wheel wells in the bedroom, so that bedroom starts AFT OF THE AXLE, regardless of the overall coach length. A 31-foot can handle that because the rest of 31-feet goes between the axles. That weight provides good loading on the front axle. It also relieves some of the load on the rear axle. I realize that's another way of saying the same thing. But I'll tell you this: Look at a coach, particularly a Class C, where it seems the House part (not counting the cab-over) is "balanced" (meaning centered) on the rear axle, looking from the side. You're looking at one that's going to have handling problems, an overly light front axle, and possibly an overloaded rear axle.
OH, if the coach is rear-end-heavy, all the more reason for an upgraded rear sway bar.
j-d wrote:
A wheelbase that's long enough to have a good WB-to-Length ratio, is also going to cause a good front axle loading.
This is my "wheelbase conspiracy theory:" In coaches bigger than about 24-feet, the manufacturer wants to hang a walkaround queen bedroom like the 31-footers have. They don't want wheel wells in the bedroom, so that bedroom starts AFT OF THE AXLE, regardless of the overall coach length. A 31-foot can handle that because the rest of 31-feet goes between the axles. That weight provides good loading on the front axle. It also relieves some of the load on the rear axle. I realize that's another way of saying the same thing. But I'll tell you this: Look at a coach, particularly a Class C, where it seems the House part (not counting the cab-over) is "balanced" (meaning centered) on the rear axle, looking from the side. You're looking at one that's going to have handling problems, an overly light front axle, and possibly an overloaded rear axle.
OH, if the coach is rear-end-heavy, all the more reason for an upgraded rear sway bar.
mrmomb wrote:
I replaced front and rear sway bars with Hellwigs. The rear came with new end links however the front uses Ford's stock mushy end links. Are there any aftermarket stiffer end links available that are recommended?
Yep looking at mine and thinking the same thing !
Why doesn't Hellwig include new front end links with the kit ?
I'm looking to replace both front and rear, but will find new end links before installing the front bar...
Found front end links from Moog on Amazon for $26.60 , but these have zerk fitting to add grease , instead of the stock non serviceable ones...
* This post was edited 06/30/17 04:39pm by OFDPOS *
I ordered both the front and rear Hellwig sway bars from SD.
I ordered a set of end links off Amazon for the front bar.
Looking forward to installing them.
JD you busy ? lol
The Hellwig bars I ordered from SD were drop shipped from Hellwig down the road from you in Visalia so might not take too long.
I know they most likely say that to everyone that orders one.
He said 7-10 business days to process the order, then 3-5 business days to receive it.
We'll see when I get them...Placed the order this morning.
* This post was edited 07/03/17 05:36pm by OFDPOS *
If you get in a jam, let me know. We don't have anybody out there now, except you and my daughter's former neighbor but GOODNESS I love it out there in NorCal. Wouldn't rule a trip out.
* This post was edited 07/03/17 06:13pm by j-d *
he was saying the part #'s and said how they were on sale 15%.
Since I was ordering both they took another $30.00 off so both bars for $460.00.
Then he went into up-sale mode and was asking about shocks front and rear, spring helpers, air bags. I laughed and said slow your roll there.
We both got a laugh out of that.
Now that would be one for the books ... You coming out here and helping me with the install ![[emoticon]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/blogger_img_proxy/AEn0k_uIAHnrhRtmgUvWfavBEsMYgT3ZcBsCQfMwWEosL2QQ1dkQ_SUgX660I6sAz4yIZkXq_AI4LONs38eQR99lBBKe490K5LdRqfMrtwAtgrpfUIYe17T4Ig=s0-d "wink")
Your a great person I'm honored to call a friend JD !
Yes it is nice out here uhm north of Sacramento anyways
I just looked Roadmaster Sway Bars up on a popular RV supply site. For E450, Front "on sale price" $499 and Rear $391. This pretty much backs up my claim that you can get both Hellwig bars for close to the price of one Roadmaster.
There is a difference between Hellwig and Roadmaster bars:
Hellwigs are powder coated and Roadmaster cadmium electro-plated.
If you scratch a Hellwig it will rust. If you scratch a Roadmaster the cadmium plating will provide cathodic protection and the scratch will rust less.
2006 Jayco 28', E450 6.8L V10, Bilstein HDs,
Roadmaster Anti-Sway Bars, Blue Ox TigerTrak
A Hellwig will never rust bad enough in our life time to worry about
Heck look at the rest of the under body ! Brand new setting on the dealer lot there is rust..
Enjoy!!
Ordered the front and rear bars from Hellwig Monday July 3rd.
UPS just dropped them off 20 minutes ago the 5th !!
Now that is fast !
I feel just fine with Hellwig's finish. That said, we live on a salt water canal, and things get rusted/corroded/rotted/faded, whatever the material has to get broken down.
When I was shopping I looked at two specs: Steel Type, and Bar Diameter. When I saw those matched I followed the money. Roadmaster says they use a steel that's superior to what's common in OEM sway bars. Hellwig calls out their steel with same spec code that Roadmaster does. They just don't mention the other steel. The one that Roadmaster says it ...doesn't use...
You busy tomorrow morning ? lol
Let you know the progress ... Suppose to be low 70's and tipping 100 for the next week uhm month... lol
I'll do one each morning.
Thanks to all.
2004 Born Free class c
countrykids wrote:
...the change is remarkable. I did not expect that the whole feel of the vehicle would change so much... Thanks to all.
It's in fact THAT dramatic! Really glad you did it. I've been adding sway bars (and replacing sway bar bushings) for years on various vehicles. I was amazed the improvement replacing worn out end link bushings on our first Class C.
The biggest improvement by far was adding Hellwig bars to this one. We were headed home from a trip just yesterday, and my wife was looking over at me with a smile. "Nice to see you relaxed over there at the wheel."
Thanks for your encouraging report!
Why Ford installs such a puny undersized bar,,, oh wait we know ,,, cost!
On both my older Chevy MH's on 3500 chassis the front bars were big , maybe not as big as the Hellwig bars? But definitely adequate enough , all I did was replace the worn mushy rubber bushings with new polyurethane bushings.
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